Comments on: People turning pets into people

By: Morgan Drake Eckstein

Morgan Drake Eckstein — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:48:09 +0000

My cat thinks it is cruelty to be forced to wear a collar and nametag. And we will not talk about the mini-Santa hat, we tried to get him to wear.

By the way, I do hold cats to be a higher standard than children. Children can always complain to the authorities; they can also figure out how to turn the TV off.

By: Abby

Abby — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:45:50 +0000

Forgot to add , the main reason I am pro-choice when it comes to tail docking is that breeders have absolutely NO way of knowing what puppies will turn out as good working/hunting dogs or which will end up in strictly pet homes at 2-3 days of age, so it’s the safest and least traumatic option to be able to dock the whole litter at 2-3 days rather than wait til the dog is 6 mos-1 yr old or so to assess his working ability and do it then.

By: Abby

Abby — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:20:40 +0000

Elysia, I do think it’s done for more than looks in a lot of breeds, hunting and working stock dogs for one. If you don’t breed FOR a tail that will withstand the environment when the dog is working, you will lose that trait. And that is what has happened with a lot of working breeds. So, when you stop docking, you get the gamut of tail types. If you look at the Wiki article, it mentions that, after the tail docking ban in Sweden (I think it was Sweden), tail injuries in traditionally docked hunting dogs increased. I think it was Pointers specifically, because they have a very tight, close coat and a whip-like tail. I am personally pro-choice when it comes to docking. If you, as the breeder of a dog, want to dock your puppies’ tails, I think you should have the right to do so safely (i.e. by a veterinarian or experienced breeder who can band properly–same guidelines-2-3 days old). HOWEVER, I think the guidelines set up should be followed.. so if you miss the window and your puppies are older than 5 days, it’s out of the question. I will be honest with you. I like the docked tails of my Pembrokes and Aussies. I don’t like them with tails. Pembroke tails, when left on, are really odd to me. Some have long tails reminiscent of a feathered Golden Retriever tail, some have crooked half-tails. Some have gay tails that curl up over the back like a northern breed. For a lot of currently docked breeds, it is part of the breed’s history, but it is a modern concern for some hunting and working breeds. I’ll also tell you this: I’ve seen tail amputations on dogs who would have normally been docked at 2-3 days old, and the amputation is MUCH more traumatic as an adult than as a neonate. The tail is notoriously hard to heal, almost impossible to bandage, and completely impossible to immobilize. Neonatal tail docks, by scalpel/scissors or by banding very, very rarely require antibiotics or even pain meds. Adult amputations require antibiotics, pain meds, and often sedation. The two cannot be compared, IMO.

Anyway, I liked your last paragraph: “While we should always keep the greater good of the animal in mind (to decrease suffering, for example), we’re just mortals, so what do we know? Still, it’s a good guidline to keep in mind. The gothic cat lady obviously wasn’t thinking about what would be best for the cats.” I agree completely here.

By: Corrine Kenner

Corrine Kenner — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:58:44 +0000

Ack! That poor kitten! That just looks painful. Clearly, the woman who pierces her animals is a moron. If you want to make your pets look goth, what’s wrong with a cool collar or scarf, or even a funny little goth t-shirt? My dog has a Celtic design on his collar. He’s very New-Age.

By: Elysia

Elysia — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:49:18 +0000

Abby, you’re right on two counts. First, I should have said it was controversial, not “generally frowned upon.” There are people on both sides of the debate, there is no overwhelming consensus. Also I double checked the article I read on docking and in the US it is not illegal anywhere, although “some states, including New York and Vermont have considered bills to make the practice illegal.” What do you personally think of tail docking? Are there cases where it’s a health measure, not just for looks?

As for free will, it is a slippery slope, which is why I tried to make clear that there were health and safety reasons that would compel you to act when the animal or person involved cannot make decisions for themselves. In magic we like to say “for the greatest good” of all involved so that, when and if we are tampering with anybody’s free will or affecting anyone (which is hard to get away from in the wide view of magic), we are still leaving it in the hands of “the greatest good.” In magic, this simply means that if what you’re trying to work for is not the best for all involved, your magic will fail if you insert this caveat as a protective measure. However, in mundane life, it’s not that easy.

While we should always keep the greater good of the animal in mind (to decrease suffering, for example), we’re just mortals, so what do we know? Still, it’s a good guidline to keep in mind. The gothic cat lady obviously wasn’t thinking about what would be best for the cats.

By: Abby

Abby — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:35:13 +0000

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, and I think the woman with the “gothic cats” is a moron at best. I do have to add, though, that tail docking of dogs isn’t frowned upon in general. There are quite a few breeds, two of mine, in fact, that are routinely docked. I used to assist with them when I worked in vet clinics, too. They are done at 2-3 days of age and not later than 5 days of age. Any longer than that, and it’s considered an amputation. Anyway, it’s a hot-button topic that has passion on both sides. Would you mind sharing what states have banned it? I try to keep up on pet legislation, and nothing has come up banning tail docking except one or two states or counties in the northeast, and as far as I know, nothing is on the books (could have changed since I last heard). It is illegal in many countries, but then again, spaying and neutering for convenience is also illegal in some European countries. Anyway, my opinion is to be careful with talking about free will with pets. If it goes too far, and some would like it to, we will not be able to euthanize our pets when they have terminal diseases or injuries we can’t afford to fix/can’t fix because of severity or when they are aggressive/unsafe to the public and/or their owners. Anyway, just a point of view from a veterinary professional and animal owner/lover.